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Birmingham's Working Horses

What a lovely story Chris, so nice to return to a peaceful and happy period in time, with what looks like an imminent war ion European soil again.Paul
 
At our house Mom stood on the doorstep with a carrot for Corky and he climbed the pavement, couldn't wait for Fred to take it to him. Happy days Christopher. regards Kath.
 
BreeseWilliam.jpg

Hello, can anyone help me identify the type of cart on this photo please? The small man was William Breese, a carter, but I don't know what sort of business he worked for. He was born in 1891 and died in 1939. He lived in the Balsall Heath area of Birmingham. On the cart you can just see "Joseph" painted on the front, but I can't make out the rest. Any help would be much appreciated.
 
Looks like a coal mound behind the two men, so maybe a coal hauler or retailer, the cart looks like the standard tumbril type of the late 19th up-to the 50's.Paul
 
Enlarging it seems to show name is Joseph ElXXXXon. At first I thought possibly Ellison but think there is too much space behind his head for just those letters, possibly Ellerton.

BreeseWilliam_came_from_balsall_heath_partA.jpg
 
Don't know if that was a guess mossg, but there is a Joseph Ellis & Sons, Coal merchants, Highgate Wharf, Athole Street in Kelly's 1949 directory.

Colin
 
That looks promising. They are also at that address in the 1912 Kellys as coal & Corn merchants (peculiar mixture). The only William I can see in Balsall Heath in the 1911 census is thomas William Breese, who is then listed as a sawyer working at a Rule manufacturers and living at 13 Wilde's building , Highgate Road, which are close to the junction of Highgate road to Ladypool road
 
I recall the coal wharf at the GWR sidings at the top of Anderton Road, in Sparkbrook, when the hill was all cobblestones.

In wet or icy weather, the cobbles would be very slippery, and I recall the sad sight of horses, with a wagon of heavy coal, slipping and sliding up, or down the hill. Even falling over, and attempting to get up and regain their footing, was an awful sight.

I would also stand on the Anderton Road bridge over the Grand Union Canal and watch the horses pulling, what were, quite heavy barges.

I promise you, a horses life was not always a happy one. Eddie
 
Thanks to all for your help. Joseph Ellis & Sons sounds about right. Mikejee - William is listed as Breeze in the 1911 census, occupation is carter, although it looks as if it is a laundry business he works for - it's hard to read. Next I need to identify the tall chap in the photo, as I have other photo's of him and no idea who he is!
Thanks again. Sue
 
I am sure that my dad used to take me to Calthorpe Park for the May Day parade of horses and wagons, I was only little, maybe the 1950's. I think there was some sort of competition between the participants.
 
Stitcher said:
Hello David, I do not have a book but the same picture could well be in a book. I have a load of newspaper cuttings and I have been told that some of these could be Old Brum magazines that have been cut up. Because I used to entertain foreign visitor with informative tours of the city, I get given these when an old friends parents or friends pass on to the grave. Some are in a dreadful state but others are sometimes very good and unusual.
stitcher
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I know I'm picking up on a very old thread here, but I'm interested in images of horses on the canals and any information at all about them - I have posted my flier on a thread I started myself but I'll post it here too. I hope that's ok.
 

Attachments

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Stitcher said:
I was thinking along those lines myself Paul, a lot of the horse pictures are obviously on newspaper and I have a suspicion that they are cut up pages of the Old Brum magazines. As I am going through them I could drop them into the rubbish bin but there is always a chance someone will be interested in them.
stitcher
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I'm really interested in them!
 
In 1956 I started at B'ham Tech in Suffolk St. (This is about horses, honest.) We had some lectures in a prefab building nearby. This must have been somewhere parallel to and not far from Broad Street. Looking at a map of that time, it might have been Holliday St. And now, the horses ...

Not far from where we went was a derelict building. It was of two storeys with (say 10) stables on each floor. I cannot remember what firm used these stables. I think it might have been Co-op dairies. Does anyone have any info about the stables.

We had Co-op milk delivered. The horse knew the route and where to stop. This must have been useful on Christmas Day. The milkie would have something to "keep the cold out" from many of his customers.

There is another 'horse' I remember. British Rail then and presumably LMS and GWR before sent carts round delivering and collecting parcels. They had fixed routes and firms would have a card in a roadside window saying "BR please call" if they had a parcel for collection.

The original carts must have been horse-drawn. By my time the horse had been replaced by a small, 3-wheeled tractor known as a 'mechanical horse'.
 
“Each town horse produced three to four tons of droppings per year. The horse population of Great Britain has been conservatively estimated at well over 2 million about 1871, on its way to a peak over 3,275,000 about 1901.”

The Age of Urban Democracy, (1868-1914), Donald Read.
 
JohnWish said:
In 1956 I started at B'ham Tech in Suffolk St. (This is about horses, honest.) We had some lectures in a prefab building nearby. This must have been somewhere parallel to and not far from Broad Street. Looking at a map of that time, it might have been Holliday St. And now, the horses ...
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I can't help with the derelict building but in the 60's it was known as the Matthew Boulton Technical College and they had 3 or 4 prefabricated class room buildings in Brasshouse Passage. On the left going from Broad Street.
 
My one Granddad used to work with the horses when he was a lad. I don't know for whom, but I remember him telling me about it when I was a kid. It would have been milk round horses. He was born around 1914 (have yet to check out the actual date) and he grew up in the Saltley. Any of his time with them would have been pre WWII as he was married by the mid 1930's & was a soldier in the war.

One thing I remember him telling me was about when they took the horses out to the countryside for their annual break & that they would run around jumping with the freedom of being out in a field rather than cooped up in stalls.

He also taught me how to plait leather & horses manes & tails. Although he taught me using wool, it came in handy when I got to my teens & had my own horse.
 
JudiM said:
My one Granddad used to work with the horses when he was a lad. I don't know for whom, but I remember him telling me about it when I was a kid. It would have been milk round horses. He was born around 1914 (have yet to check out the actual date) and he grew up in the Saltley. Any of his time with them would have been pre WWII as he was married by the mid 1930's & was a soldier in the war.

One thing I remember him telling me was about when they took the horses out to the countryside for their annual break & that they would run around jumping with the freedom of being out in a field rather than cooped up in stalls.

He also taught me how to plait leather & horses manes & tails. Although he taught me using wool, it came in handy when I got to my teens & had my own horse.
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In December 1893 Herbert Austin patented improved versions of a sheep/horse clipper and in 1894 he put in a tender to clip 500 horses belonging to Birmingham City Tramways Department, just to demonstrate the efficiency of his new clippers, and estimated it would achieve a 75% profit margin, but it is not known if this resulted in any orders for Wolseley.
Boomy
 
I remember milk wagons pulled by horses delivering the milk. It would have been in the 1950s in Kingstanding. I vividly remember the horses and the carts seeming to be massive. But as a very little child at the time, I suppose they would have been. The Keith Berry photo makes them seem much smaller. Viv.
 
Vivienne14 said:
Where was the Co-op Dairy on Kingstanding Road Oldmohawk? Viv.
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there was a co-op dairy in Vauxhall rd nechells i know that. my old friend worked there. his horse was stabled in Belmont row
they covered the spark brook area. bless them
 
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Vivienne14 said:
Where was the Co-op Dairy on Kingstanding Road Oldmohawk? Viv.
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Viv, it was between the Drill Hall and Goodway Road see aerial view below. There used to be quite a lot of horses stabled there. Your childhood house is in the pic ... :)
oldMohawk said:
As well as the area in post#39, I roamed or travelled to grandparents across this area but some years later than the 1938 date of this image.
Red dot marks the Hare & Hounds Pub on the Kingstanding Rd.
Green dot marks a gap between the houses in Atlantic Road - why was it not built upon ?
Yellow dot marks the Kingstanding Rd-Hawthorn Rd-Dyas Rd-Warren Farm Rd junction.
Blue dot marks a sand quarry off Dyas Rd ... the 'cliffs' were as high as houses.
Mauve dot marks Kingstanding Rd Drill Hall with Co op dairy next to it and Goodway Rd to the right.
Orange dot marks Cavandale Ave unfinished in this image but finished by the start of WW2.
Most of the dot-marked places on the pic have been mentioned in various posts on the froum.
Click or tap on the pic to enlarge it ... use scroll bars to move across it.
index.php
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Vivienne14 said:
I remember milk wagons pulled by horses delivering the milk. It would have been in the 1950s in Kingstanding. I vividly remember the horses and the carts seeming to be massive. But as a very little child at the time, I suppose they would have been. The Keith Berry photo makes them seem much smaller. Viv.
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There's many types of heavy horse with the feathered feed- some taller than others.

Of the common ones, the Clydesdale is the tallest - can be more than 6' where they are measured from (the area where the neck joins the back), Shire horses are shorter (5'8" ish) but stockier, there's also Welsh Cobs - smaller again (4.5' - 5.5'). The one in the picture above looks more like a cob to me (or a cob cross), the head looks wrong to be either a Clydesdale or Shire horse, so it's possibly somewhat smaller than one ones you remember.

Yes, I was a very 'horsey' child growing up - I have all sorts of random horse facts stored in my brain (probably at the expense of things that are more practically useful in life :joy: )
 
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