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Bayliss Kate

M

Moby the Villan

proper brummie kid
Good day all....doing some family research, and we have discovered that one of our relations worked a barrow at the Birmingham Market. She was born Kate Bayliss of Skinner Lane in 1898, and her parents were Sidney and Louisa Bayliss (nee Frampton). She had two sisters, Mary (Whalin) and Florence (McGovern). Through Find My Past, we have been able to discover details of all the members of this branch of the family tree, except for Kate Bayliss. My Wife can remember meeting her Great-Aunt Kate in 1972 at Mary Whalin's funeral. Does anyone remember Kate working on the barrows (probably fruit and veg) in the area around Pimm's and St Martin's-In-The-Field in the 1950s and possibly before? The only other thing my Wife was told was that Kate had a partner, an Irishman, possibly by the name of Jack, who died in the 1950s. Any recollections would be gratefully received...many thanks!
 
Kate was registered as Catherine Bayliss in Bham, Mar qtr 1898.

There is a marriage for Catherine Bayliss to a Alfred Pountain registered in Bham N, Dec qtr 1925.

There is a death for an Alfred Pountain registered in Bham, Bec qtr 1934.

There is a marriage registered for a Catherine Pountain and a John Cant registered Bham, Jun qtr 1956.

There is a death registered for a Catherine Cant registered Bham, Mar qtr 1973. Dob is listed as 19 Dec 1897.

All ties in but more would be needed to confirm.
 
There are two Pountain/Bayliss children registered - Ivy J 1931 and Dorothy E 1933, both in Bham.
 
Kate and Alfred Pountain’s address in 1930 was 13 Welland Grove, Erdington North Ward


In 1935 Kate Pountain was at 140 Bradford Street with the Bosco family; (this may not be your Kate).

In 1939 on the electoral roll Kathleen Pountain is at 12 Fulham Road, but wasn't there when the eve of WW2 register was taken. Well not that I can see and as she died in 1973, if she was there, her record should be available to see.
 
I am moving this thread to the surname interests section of th forum. And I've modified the title. Viv.
 
John Cant could have been known as Jack as in #1. (My late father in law was known as Jack but apparently christened John).
 
Many, MANY thanks for the detailed responses! Although the info discovered probably could relate to the Kate Bayliss we are looking for, this may be difficult to prove as we are unlikely to find her birth certificate as my Wife's Grand-Mother (Kate's younger sister) was never registered at the General Register Office (who confirm this), so Kate may not have been registered either, sadly. That said, without the input from you good folk, we wouldn't have got this far so many thanks once again. Probably easier to find Lord Lucan...;)
 
Here's a copy of her birth registration and baptism

Name: Mother's Maiden Surname:
BAYLISS, CATHERINE FRAMPTON
GRO Reference: 1898 M Quarter in BIRMINGHAM Volume 06D Page 67
 

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Hello there Bewdley....many thanks for the copy of Kate Bayliss' Baptism records, which we can confirm is correct and ties in with everything we have discovered so far. Again, without help we would never have been able to discover this, despite having a regular annual subscription to Find My Past, which on the whole, we have found very useful. Interestingly enough, we have also been unable to find records of Kate's mother, Louisa (nee Frampton), except for her life after her marriage to Sidney Bayliss in the 1890s. I just wonder if we're not using FMP's facilities to our best advantage! One more thing, re St Gabriel's church on Pickford Street and Barn Street, Deritend, where she was Baptised. I've just been reading a very interesting thread here on that very Church, which seems to have suffered bomb damage in 1940/1 and claimed the life of a Fireman who was trying to extinguish the fire there. It was damaged to the extent that it was demolished in 1945. Once again, your help has been invaluable and so many thanks to you! Simon and Jackie
 
Louisa Frampton is certainly elusive. Have you seen a copy of her marriage?

If her father's name was William or Alfred then...

There is a registration for a Louisa Frampton in Bham, Mar qtr 1878 - mmn is listed as Whewell.

No trace of Louisa Framptin in 1881 or 1891 and can't see a Frampton/Whewell marriage.

However there is a registration for a William Alfred Frampton in Bham, Jun qtr 1880.

There is a marriage for a William Alfred Frampton to a Lily Burns - 3 Aug 1902, St Martin's Bham. Father's name also William Alfred.

In 1911 William & Lily are living at 13 Robert Road, Aston with 3 children. William is a butcher.

In 1901 William is listed as a slaughterman with his mother - Sarah A Frampton.

There are 2 other Frampton/Whewell children listed - Sarah Ann b1868 & Phoebe Elizabeth b1869, both Bham.

In 1871 there is an (Alfred b1837 Bham) & Sarah Frampton (b1841 Liverpoo) living in Cotton St, Bham with 2 daughters, Sarah A & Phoebe E. Alfred is listed as a Butcher.
 
On the 1901 census there is also a daughter listed - Catherine A, b1882. Can find no trace of her birth

There is also a marriage for a Florence Frampton & an Albert Burns (brother of William's wife) - 9 Feb 1902, St Martin's Bham. Father is listed as Alfred. Can find no trace of her birth either and wonder if Florence & Catherine are the same person.

In 1911 Sarah Frampton is living with Florence & Albert at 3 back 49 Stratford Road.
 
Which would mean that Florence/Catherine was not Alfred's daughter and the reason why there's no registration. Maybe Sarah's boarder in 1881 was a little more than that.

Unfortunately it also appears that Phoebe Elizabeth was born with some type of mental problems, she is in Western Road Infirmary in 1891, 1901 & 1911.
 
Thanks for the update MWS, much obliged....Jackie (my Wife) actually has a copy of Louisa Frampton's Birth Cert, born 3 Jan 1878 at 3 Court, Pershore Street, father is Alfred Frampton, mother Sarah Frampton nee Whewell. The certificate bears Sarah's mark only, so she was probably illiterate. Very interesting about Alfred dying so early. Plus sadly, Western Road has cropped up on both sides of our families research. Your help has been invaluable inasmuch as it has enabled us to definitely link the info we have obtained to the actual people we have been looking for and build a bigger and clearer picture of family details that have been difficult for us to obtain. PS no millionaires sadly :)
 
Moby, I'm going to throw another spanner in the works with the marriage of Alfred Frampton to Sarah WEAVER. I have included a copy of their certificate below. Sarah was born in Liverpool and the couple married there on Oct 29th 1866.

The witnesses were William and Margaret WHEWELL, who they are I have no clue........yet!!

Also do you have the marriage cert of Sidney and Louisa? If not I can post it here for you,
 

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Just seems to be a mistake with the name, though a good one as they've got the witnesses right.

Sarah Ann was the daughter of John Whewell & Elizabeth Hogg. On the 1861 census they're listed as Wever. She has an elder brother named William, he married a Margaret Eustace in 1866.

John is listed as Waywell on his marriage to Elizabeth.
 
Last edited:
Brilliant MWS

John and Elizabeth's marriage cert below.

Sarah Ann Waywell was born on Jan 14 1848 and baptised on March 19 1848 at West Derby, Lancashire. Her entry is second from the bottom.
 

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bewdley said:
Moby, I'm going to throw another spanner in the works with the marriage of Alfred Frampton to Sarah WEAVER. I have included a copy of their certificate below. Sarah was born in Liverpool and the couple married there on Oct 29th 1866.

The witnesses were William and Margaret WHEWELL, who they are I have no clue........yet!!

Also do you have the marriage cert of Sidney and Louisa? If not I can post it here for you,
Click to expand...

Sorry for the delay, more research being done here!

Would really appreciate a copy of the Sidney/Louisa marriage details, thanks. The details on Louisa's Birth Cert are as follows: born 3rd Jan 1878, address, 3 Court, Pershore Street, Birmingham. Father registered as Alfred Frampton, mother Sarah (nee Whewell). As regards the Alfred/Sarah marriage, William Whewell the witness ties in with evidence we have found in the 1851 Census, where Sarah Whewell has a brother William, so William and Margaret (his wife probably?) could be Sarah's brother and sister-in-law. Does this tie in with the evidence you have discovered? Many thanks again, Simon and Jackie
 
MWS said:
Just seems to be a mistake with the name, though a good one as they've got the witnesses right.

Sarah Ann was the daughter of John Whewell & Elizabeth Hogg. On the 1861 census they're listed as Wever. She has an elder brother named William, he married a Margaret Eustace in 1866.

John is listed as Waywell on his marriage to Elizabeth.
Click to expand...


Again, sorry for the delay MWS....more research being done here!

This does seem to tie in with the evidence found so far regarding John and Elizabeth.

Without the Forum's help here, I doubt we would have been able to get so far. Cheers!
 
bewdley said:
Brilliant MWS

John and Elizabeth's marriage cert below.

Sarah Ann Waywell was born on Jan 14 1848 and baptised on March 19 1848 at West Derby, Lancashire. Her entry is second from the bottom.
Click to expand...


Hello again 'Bewdley'. The Baptism record for Sarah Anne Waywell seems to be correct as far as our history research is concerned. Although we have a subscription to Find My Past, in this instance they do not hold copies of the actual page of Baptismal records, just a transcription. Having already spent hundreds of pounds at the GRO on certificate copies, is there an easier/cheaper way to obtain them? TVM to you and the rest of the Members here for the time you've taken on this....Simon and Jackie
 
Hi, I found all the records on Ancestry I have world membership, but if you go to their website, it will give you a breakdown of what records you can see per membership and the cost.

We're always happy to help, but there's nothing like finding that record yourself!
 
Thanks for that Bewdley. Although we've found FMP very useful, the more detailed stuff appears to be available on Ancestry only. That said, we still probably won't find it plain sailing and no doubt will be begging for assistance from you again ;)....
 
You may know this but you can register for free on Ancestry - search and then, if you find sufficient records you think you need, subscribe. I did it the other way round joined Ancestry and paid for some credits for the things I needed from FMP.
 
pjmburns said:
You may know this but you can register for free on Ancestry - search and then, if you find sufficient records you think you need, subscribe. I did it the other way round joined Ancestry and paid for some credits for the things I needed from FMP.
Click to expand...


At this stage, paying for a few credits to Ancestry while having a FMP sub is probably the best way forward. It does seem odd though, that Ancestry may have access to stuff FMP doesn't and vice versa. Will give it a go and see how things develop. That said, there's such a helpful group of folks here! Thanks again, Simon and Jackie
 
I am not sure but think Ancestry only does subscriptions and FMP does credits. Although they do often have discounts for new subscribers.
 
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