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1845 Handsworth

A

alanfisher202

master brummie
Help Please,Is there any way of tracing a person or persons who lived in Handsworth in 1845,at least that what is down on their marriage certificate.
Alan (help the aged)
 
What is it you want to know Alan? Where they lived in 1851, or where they are buried? I am sure several of us can help if you can let us know exactly what you want. Shortie
 
Shortie thanks for the reply,I have a marriage certificate for a relative who was married in 1845 at St MARY'S HANDSWORTH, the address for both is only down as Handswoth,I was born and lived there for 35 years, I am trying to find out where they both lived.
The relatives are
John Shelley Fisher (born abt 1819)
Eliza Baker (born abt 1817)
John's father was Isaiah Fisher (born abt 1791)
Mother Sarah Shelley (born abt 1791)
I cannot find either in the 1841 census, I have both in the 1851 census living in Birmingham.
Kind regards
Alan (help the aged)
 
Hi Alan

If they are not in Handsworth at the time of the 1851 census, it is going to be impossible to find where they lived. To have been married at a church, they only had to have the normal three weeks in residence to be able to use the church for a marriage. I think this is something you might just have to live with, although I know it is frustrating. Sorry not to be able to help the aged on this occasion! Shortie
 
Thanks anyway Shortie, I thought it maybe a dead end,I will pay a visit to the church just in case they may have information about the marriage.
Alan (help the aged)
 
Alan, they won't have any information at the church. Churches do not have the correct conditions in which to store old documents. The records are on microfilm in the Library, and you will probably find (as I have done myself) that exactly the same information is there. If anything, the certificate is the document that will give you the most information.

I have got quite a lot of certificates which just give a district 'Duddeston' in 1856, 'Aston New Town' in 1861, but in later years the address was given completely.

Sometimes, Alan, you just have to be satisfied with less than you would wish. Ten researching years on, I still get disapointed, but you learn to live with it. Happy hunting. Shortie
 
Thanks once again Shortie,your points are taken on board.

I have noticed that some of the marriage certificates when sent to me are copies of the original as written by the people concerned (photo copy),some written by the same person throughout, others give details that have been typed onto a certificate,what in your opinion is the best way to obtain photo copies from the original certificate showing the hand writing of the people concered.

The copies from Birmingham Registry office show the original hand writing.

Thanks again.
Alan (help the aged)
 
Alan, some register offices (Cheltenham for one) do not have the facility for photocopying so you get a disappointing hand-written or typed certificate (and in one instance I had one typed with the wrong name!!), but some have, it's pot luck I am afraid. If you want to have a copy with the original writing on, your local LDS will order the film for you if they don't have it there, it does not cost a lot. As you say, Birmingham's are all photocpied, but that has not always been the case. I notice you are in Handsworth, I think the nearest LDS is Penn's Lane, Sutton. (LDS is Latter Day Saints, otherwise known as the Mormon church). What areas were you interested in? All Birmingham, Handsworth and Aston are on 6th floor of Central Library. Shortie
 
Shortie,Thanks, that explains why I had a typed certificate from Walsall (I would have thought they would have had a photo copier perhaps it was broke}.

I am wondering though, do you think they must have the original, my Grand Father and Grand Mother where married there in 1901.

Thats very interesting and worth knowing about the LDS,I live in Great Barr so I would think Sutton would still be the nearest.

At the moment I have been reading a book Old and New Handsworth (written in 1908),then onto another book Old and New Birmingham (1880),
very very interesting books from the local library, a little heavy in parts but most interesting.

KInd regards Alan
 
Hello Alan. I still get typed certificates from Cheltenham, I think it is not an ordinary copier they use, and perhaps the smaller offices just don't have them at present. If you want to see the original, I would suggest you either do it via the LDS or phone Walsall Library, local studies, and ask if they have the films. I am sure they will. According to my records, the tele[hone number is 01922 721305 and the email is [email protected]. If they don't have it, they will tell you where the film is available. You will find the LDS under Church of Latter Day Saints in the phone book - I don't live in Birmingham anymore, so don't have a directory.

I have heard but not read Dent's Old and New Birmingham, but I did not know there was a Handsworth book, now that is interesting, I will have to see if I can get it via my own library. If you want a 'serious' book on Birmingham, Eric Hopkins 'Birmingham - the making of the second city - 1850-1939' is very good. Slightly dry (that's how I like my books) it tells you all sorts of things about factories, housing, etc etc and I have found it useful in understanding how my forebears lived - at least to an extent.

Best wishes - Shortie
 
Thanks Shortie.I will try the Walsall Library first I have been meaning to phone them anyway, my mother was in Wigmore Orphanage in the early 1900s (about 1910-1918)
but the information regarding her was very limited because 100 years had not passed.

I will keep away from the Mormans (might end up with another wife) only joking (just added that incase my wife see's this thread.

I too will ask about the book you mention, reading the Dent book on Birmingham, it mentions Hutton when he was walking from Walsall to Birmingham via Handsworth Heath
he talks about the wonderful sight St Phillips looked across the fields (I think he would have been at the top of Soho Hill).

Thanks again.

Alan (help the aged)
 
alanfisher202 said:
Help Please,Is there any way of tracing a person or persons who lived in Handsworth in 1845,at least that what is down on their marriage certificate.
Alan (help the aged)
Click to expand...

Hi Alan Fisher

I am not sure if I have contacted you before, regarding my Gt Gt Gt Grandparents, William Hands and Mary Ann Probert.

My query is, that when they married at St Marys, Handsworth on 9 June 1833, the witnesses are Richard Fisher and William Price.

Would Richard Fisher have any connection to your family? I am curious to find out who he is.

I would be very grateful if you could let me know, if there is a connection.

Many thanks
Joan Harvey (nee Hands)
 
Hello Joan,
Sorry for the delay in answering, I was unable to post a reply.
Because I am no longer a member of Ancestry I can only give a vague answer to your post.
I am unable to find a Richard Fisher in my tree mainly because I followed a direct line from my
G G Grandfather (John Fisher born 1819) so he may be a sibling down the line somewhere.
The funny thing though I do have a Samuel Hands born 1811 in Birmingham with a daughter
Mary Ann born 1832,there is also a William Upton Hands in my list if that is of any use, but be aware
I have no document evidence to show my research is accurate.
Alan
 
Hello Alan

Thanks for your message. I do not have a Samuel Hands, born 1811 in my tree, or a William Upton Hands, but I feel there must be a connection somewhere. Although not sure how.

I will have to do more searching, but the trouble is when you are looking for dates before 1837, it becomes Parish Records and I'm not sure how to apply for these. The Parish Marriage Record that I have, of my Gt Gt Gt Grandparents for 1833 was kindly sent to me by a distant relative, who I met through ancestry. I think it must be The Birmingham History Records Office, who I apply to.

O well, back to more searching, many thanks anyway.

Joan Harvey, nee Hands
 
alanfisher202 said:
Shortie thanks for the reply,I have a marriage certificate for a relative who was married in 1845 at St MARY'S HANDSWORTH, the address for both is only down as Handswoth,I was born and lived there for 35 years, I am trying to find out where they both lived.
The relatives are
John Shelley Fisher (born abt 1819)
Eliza Baker (born abt 1817)
John's father was Isaiah Fisher (born abt 1791)
Mother Sarah Shelley (born abt 1791)
I cannot find either in the 1841 census, I have both in the 1851 census living in Birmingham.
Kind regards
Alan (help the aged)
Click to expand...
Hi Alan

I know this is an old post now, but are you still looking for information on John Shelley Fisher and Eliza Baker? If so, please get in touch. They are my 3 x great grandparents.

BW

Alex
 
Hi Peter

Thanks for your message. Apologies, I had the wrong Fishers! John Fis(c)her was German Immigrant and was actually married to Mary Ann Downes. Their daughter, Eliza Fisher, was married to George Mead (real name Martin Georg Adolf Konrad Meyer), himself another German immigrant.

What I did discover is that Eliza Baker's illegitimate first daughter married and went to the USA. I have more info in the office that I can share with you when I return from vacation.

BW

Alex
 
Alexander Rawlins said:
Hi Peter

Thanks for your message. Apologies, I had the wrong Fishers! John Fis(c)her was German Immigrant and was actually married to Mary Ann Downes. Their daughter, Eliza Fisher, was married to George Mead (real name Martin Georg Adolf Konrad Meyer), himself another German immigrant.

What I did discover is that Eliza Baker's illegitimate first daughter married and went to the USA. I have more info in the office that I can share with you when I return from vacation.

BW

Alex
Click to expand...

No problem. I did wonder when I came across a Rawlins tree on Ancestry. I'm aware of a 'Shelley Fisher' connection in the USA but I don't have all the details about Eliza Baker (1815-1902).
 
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