• Welcome to this forum . We are a worldwide group with a common interest in Birmingham and its history. While here, please follow a few simple rules. We ask that you respect other members, thank those who have helped you and please keep your contributions on-topic with the thread.

    We do hope you enjoy your visit. BHF Admin Team
  • HI folks the server that hosts the site completely died including the Hdd's and backups.
    Luckily i create an offsite backup once a week! this has now been restored so we have lost a few days posts.
    im still fixing things at the moment so bear with me and im still working on all images 90% are fine the others im working on now
    we are now using a backup solution

What Happened To The Lake House In Boldmere

Janice, I don't know what happened yesterday but I missed the maps you posted on #112 & #113. These maps solve a real mystery! Thank you. The quarrying must have taken place after the time of the Lakehouse maps. My cousin lived on Chester Road - going up the road there are two blocks of terraces (three storey Victorian properties) with a driveway in between. She lived in the second block almost next to the driveway and remembers the huge excavation. We were all forbidden to go to the end of the garden and on one map it actually touches the boundary.
 
Pen - I was surprised how near the houses the excavation seemed to come. I can see why you had to keep away from the end of the garden. Glad the maps were of use.
 
Janice and Peter (and anyone else please),

A little bit more to add to the discussion - I discovered Stonnall Local History website which is further up the Chester Road, towards Brownhills. The link below should take you to their excellent site and there is a section on 'The Lost Lake of Stonnall'. It has given me great food for thought concerning Baldmore Lake. Even if you don't know the area it's a very well-put together site and worth a look.

https://www.stonnall-history-group.org.uk/articles/The_Lost_Lake_of_Stonnall.html

Also enclosed is a copy of the 1814 OS map together with a small section of the Erdington Enclosures map. Not sure of the date of this last one but the bit of road in the top corner is Court Lane and the small fields are at the end of Short Heath park. The Stonnall site mentions a 'tear' shape for their lake before it was walled in.

On the OS map you can just spot (I hope) a stream coming through the Chester Road running down to the existing stream in the Marsh Lane recreation ground. It seems to rise a little above the lake site on the map. Maybe runs under the high ground. Another similarity with the Stonnall lost lake is that all the land on the Coldfield (now Boldmere - above on the map - not sure of the direction) slopes down to the site.

(Off topic but connected - The OS map doesn't show the Greyhound or any dwellings in the area but I have another source which shows the pub, mentioned by name, in 1824 so back a few more years from the 1841 census).
 

Attachments

  • OS 1814.jpg
    OS 1814.jpg
    825.8 KB · Views: 19
  • Baldmore Lake Erd Enc.jpg
    Baldmore Lake Erd Enc.jpg
    422.6 KB · Views: 19
Wandering slightly off topic again but I decided to Google 'tear drop lake' and found that there are loads of them all over the world. As Peter suggested earlier they appear to be glacial. Imagine, a glacier moving across the Chester Road. (Mind you, I suppose the traffic couldn't be much slower with Amey closing roads round here right left and centre).
 
Lady Penelope said:
Wandering slightly off topic again but I decided to Google 'tear drop lake' and found that there are loads of them all over the world. As Peter suggested earlier they appear to be glacial. Imagine, a glacier moving across the Chester Road. (Mind you, I suppose the traffic couldn't be much slower with Amey closing roads round here right left and centre).
Click to expand...

Lady P, after consulting a Geological Oracle, you may not be far out here! A couple of the Oracles observations may be of interest....

“The extent of the Devensian till sheet [being the one mentioned in posts above, and deposited at the edge by the last ice sheet of 10,000 years ago] in the Birmingham area is described by Powell et al. (2000) as a line from north Dudley, through Walsall to Sutton Coldfield, based upon the earlier work of Martin (1891) and Eastwood et al. (1925), although they emphasize that the exact location of the margin is imprecise due to the difficulty in differentiating between pre- Devensian and Devensian tills.”

Now post 104 shows that, in geological terms, our lake was in the small area surrounded by these tills. It is said that at the edge of the ice sheet it can be, as it retreats, that the till can fan out and the superficial layer may vary over short distances.

Next time I am in Delph I will consult about the tear drops!
 
Wonderful Pedrocut, I am just ploughing my way through The Origins of Britain which may help me understand things a little more. It's a completely new area for me but I shall persevere!Thanks.
 
Lady Penelope said:
Wandering slightly off topic again but I decided to Google 'tear drop lake' and found that there are loads of them all over the world. As Peter suggested earlier they appear to be glacial. Imagine, a glacier moving across the Chester Road. (Mind you, I suppose the traffic couldn't be much slower with Amey closing roads round here right left and centre).
Click to expand...
Obviously Lady P you are far to young to remember the glacier on Chester Road that was the winter of 1946.
Bob
 
Yes Bob, a little before my time, thank you!
I've just posted this on the adverse weather thread but I thought it may bring back a few memories for you. We have our own lake here - our road is on the right. The road was lowered when they built the railway but at the initial railway hearing they were warned that this road was liable to flood.
This was this afternoon and they had to close the road as the car pictured was stuck. This has happened many times and still cars chance it. It's far deeper in the middle. Just noticed the sky and it looks as though there's more to come.
 

Attachments

  • 20180527_165526.jpg
    20180527_165526.jpg
    617.4 KB · Views: 26
Lady Penelope said:
Yes Bob, a little before my time, thank you!
I've just posted this on the adverse weather thread but I thought it may bring back a few memories for you. We have our own lake here - our road is on the right. The road was lowered when they built the railway but at the initial railway hearing they were warned that this road was liable to flood.
This was this afternoon and they had to close the road as the car pictured was stuck. This has happened many times and still cars chance it. It's far deeper in the middle. Just noticed the sky and it looks as though there's more to come.
Click to expand...
I remember it well used to walk to Green Lanes from 41 to 47, somewhere there is picture of a 28 bus either stuck in it or ploughing through it, but thanks for the memory
Bob
 
Lady Penelope said:
Wandering slightly off topic again but I decided to Google 'tear drop lake' and found that there are loads of them all over the world. As Peter suggested earlier they appear to be glacial. Imagine, a glacier moving across the Chester Road. (Mind you, I suppose the traffic couldn't be much slower with Amey closing roads round here right left and centre).
Click to expand...

I was uploading a picture to a site yesterday and thought about your lost lake, and the Chester Road being surrounded by Marsh Marigolds...

https://www.ipernity.com/doc/2254674/46756374/in/album/1063536
 
Last edited:
Here's another puzzling picture. Any idea what the object is to the left of the road from the church? Do you think it's the remnants of the lake, it's in the right place? This map is from 1857. The house at the end of the word 'road' is the site of the Lake House but I don't think it's Captain Holloway's house - different shape and it also appears on an earlier map. PS. Just discovered how to draw lines on the picture (by accident).
 

Attachments

  • Plot 224.jpg
    Plot 224.jpg
    337.7 KB · Views: 30
I traced the Chester Road, the Greyhound and the two strange blobs at the bottom of what I think are plots 228 & 231 (they are at the bottom of the plot adjoining the Lake House plot and sit on the boundary). I then printed Janice's map from post #91 and allowing for the slightly different scale they coincide brilliantly. So I think that the 'blobs' which I originally attributed to marks on the map are actually the last residue of the lake. This would make sense as the occupant of one of the houses told me that the lake 'was at the back'. You can just see a small amount of marsh on the corner of the plot adjoining Chester Road.

I also think that the strange thing on plot ?224, at the bottom of the road from the church is a drain and either a stream or culvert. It appears to end abruptly when it hits the boundary although I think it carries on. There was no communication between Erdington and Sutton and certainly no love lost. The plots were sold off and houses appear on later maps. The land would have to be drained.

So all that remains is for me to type all this up with everyone's findings which may take me a while as there are a couple of things to sort out. Basically though, yes, there was a lake. I believe it was a glacial 'tear drop lake' and would have become much deeper in the wetter months. So thank you to all the geologists, historians, geographers, detectives and other interested parties! You all helped to prove that it was a natural lake that disappeared through man's intervention. I think the mystery has been solved.
 
Well done Penny - a great piece of research. It is so good when everything comes together, isn't it?
 
Well, Bob, there are a few mysteries still unsolved on the Forum. One that comes to mind, which taxed many minds, is the one, as yet unidentifiable, with the delightful cottages in 'Great Barr'. :D
 
Radiorails said:
Well, Bob, there are a few mysteries still unsolved on the Forum. One that comes to mind, which taxed many minds, is the one, as yet unidentifiable, with the delightful cottages in 'Great Barr'. :D
Click to expand...
One ‘mystery’ we have not solved was identification of the street through which a large aircraft fuselage was being transported even though the photo was taken by a local photographer....:D
oldmohawk
 
Thank you Cardean, I shall study that! I've been away for a few days without wifi so I've only just picked up these posts and need to print the picture with your overlay to compare with others.
I wouldn't have got so far on the lake without help from the forum especially Janice and Peter and as you say it's all coming together now.
 
Well done Cardean, I've looked at your last picture and it puts everything into perspective. It also confirms Pedro's post #35, so well done to Pedro too for getting it right so early in the day.

So, if I've got the story straight now, the two houses with writing on were built shortly after 1923 as planning permission was applied for in that year. Lake House was still still standing then. (I have seen the application but can't post it due to it belonging to the library). If the numbering has stayed the same then 340, the corner corner house next to the above houses wasn't built until the Lake House had gone and was probably part of the Lakehouse Road development. The owner of 338 thought that his house was built in the 1930's as were the properties in Lakehouse Road. The two dwellings at the back of 334-338 were most likely built in the 40's as they are built on what were the gardens belonging to these three properties. I believe the person who applied for planning permission was a Mr Manley or something like that (I can't see it properly on my photo of the plans so if you could let me know what it reads I'll follow that up next). Also - what does the writing say on the two houses please?
 
Morturn, you queried Handsworth Dairies location in post #38. Today I found a book from the 1950's which has it at 358 Chester Road and there is one house adjoining, then Sycamore so about where we thought it was.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top