Memories of a Birmingham Musician (Drummer)!

[sospiri]

Tommy Webster - now there's a name I haven't heard for a long, long time, Eddie. In a minute I hope you or someone else is going to tell me what became of him - Google is not a lot of use.

Maurice

 

[norfolk brummie]

Here I go Maurice.

I got to know Tommy Webster when he was the drummer in the Sonny Rose Band at the old West End Ballroom. When Sonny added John Patrick on piano, and Alan Randle on vibes, the rhythm section, with Vic Mortiboys on bass, became a 'must see' for most Birmingham musicians.
Tommy turned down every big band name in the country, even turned down an offer from the great Tommy Dorsey in America.

Tommy Webster was a true Birmingham man. He loved the city, the music, his home and his wife, and would never leave any of it.

When the great drummers came to Birmingham they would all flock to see Tommy....Jack Parnell, Phil Seaman, Ronnie Verrell, Kenny Clare, Eric Delaney, and lots more. They all spoke in awe about his drumming. Tommy taught Tony Kinsey, Ray Price (who later joined emigrated and played for George Shearing, Oscar Peterson and Stan Kenton, as well as the Lucille Ball Show. He also taught Pete Cater Snr, who's son Pete Cater Jnr. is now a top British drummer. May I modestly say that Tommy also gave me a few lessons at no charge, when I would meet him after a evening show, and drive him home to Selly Oak. He never drove.

Eventually Tommy had a nervous breakdown, lost confidence, and never really played again, but bought the little grocery shop on the corner of Medlicott/Walford Road, and lived the rest of his life there.

There have been many fine drummers that came out of Birmingham, but there will never be another Tommy Webster. He was the foundation stone of every Birmingham drummers rise to fame.

A lovely man, and I miss him.

Eddie.

 

[sospiri]

Eddie,

That is something that has never failed to amaze me. Shift the time scale by just three years and in the music business you know an entirely different set of people. Tommy was a guy that I had heard of and I'm sure I heard play just once. But while much of this was happening, I was in the RAF, and when I came out I had to get to know a whole different set of people. Johnny Beck, Vince Thomas, Johnny Patrick & Colin Willetts were still about, of course, but many had already moved further afield by the time I got to spread my wings

Also I think the Brum music scene in the 1950s was very cliquish. The musicians in the Sonny Rose Band were nearly all just names, and I probably made as many connections via people I knew in Essex and London as I did in Birmingham, and by January 1961 I too had moved south. Nice to hear the Webster story though - thanks.

Maurice

 

[sospiri]

The names don't ring a bell (or play a note!) with me Jim, but my activities on the Birmingham musical scene covered quite a small window from May 1957 to the end of 1960. More likely that Eddie will know them.

Maurice

 

[devonjim]

Sospiri, I think they were more 1990's. Think Moody Blues, Dire Straits, Celone Dion era

 

[sospiri]

Jim,

I'd been in Dorset for 30 years then! I didn't really start to renew my musical friends until I started attending the Jazz Festival in the early 2000s. By then, a lot of my 1950s acquaintences had either died off or disappeared, and I've never really been involved with pop - think either modern jazz or classical! But it takes all kinds.....

Maurice

 

[norfolk brummie]

During my time living in Sparkbrook, Anderton Road boasted two very good pianists. Alf (Bev) Bevin, who ran his own jazz group, the Bev Patty Quartet, and in the 1950's they reached the final of the All British Band Championships at Belle Vue, in Manchester. This was a huge musical event sponsored by the musical paper Melody Maker. The Bev Patty Quartet came third in the finals, but Alf Bevin was nominated the musician of the evening by the late Johnny Dankworth, and the late Steve Race.
The other fine pianist from Anderton Road was Johnny Hocken who undertook a lot of radio work.

Basil Wainwright himself, also played drums (A few lessons from me), and led his own 'trad' band in the city.

Eddie

 

[norfolk brummie]

Celebrating our grand daughters wedding at the week end. In the lounge of the hotel was a beautiful grand piano. Since I had had to forgo my piano practice, I decided to play a few notes.

The 'feel' of the keyboard was superb.

Just found out that it had been the personal piano of impresario, the late Sir Lew Grade !

Eddie

 

[oldbrit]

Before the wonderful Joe Morello joined the Dave Brubeck Quartet, the drummer was Joe Dodge

Met Joe M. a few times. Wonderful man.

Eddie

I was talking about OUR drummer TED (EDDIE) YOU!!! I did know about Joe Morello who was the base player in Brubeck's group?

 

[sospiri]

Eddie,

You know by instinct once you've played a "real" piano! Even professionals used to playing sponsored instruments such as Steinway Ds, for example, Oscar Peterson, knew when they had encountered something significantly better like a Bosendorfer. I'm surprised by the number of pro keyboard players that I encounter on Keyboard Corner, who gig with electronic keyboards, but keep a much more expensive concert grand at home for their own personal pleasure.

The same applies to genuine tone-wheel Hammonds like the B3. No one can be bothered to transport these about any longer due to the sheer weight. Encounter a venue accessed by stairs or tight corridor bends and you're sunk. So they perform on much lighter electronic instruments. Yet I know several such performers who keep several B3s or A100s at home - as many as their wives will tolerate! - just for the sheer joy of being able to play them.

Maurice

 

[oldbrit]

Eddie not sure if you knew that my Dad. Bert Crump, was a concert pianist, Do you remember that he always had a grand piano in the front room. A Bleuthner I think. When he passed away, Joan my sister, (I know you remember her) had to dispose of the piano, The floor boards in the room were rotten and the piano almost fell through them! The poor piano, also has rot and was falling apart, she almost had to give it away, Dad also had a player piano that was fun to play around with. Rolls that you put in to play music. I took piano lessons for years, they use to lock me in the front room to practice, I hated it. We also had a blind man that came on the bus # 17b stopped right out side our house on Moat Lane (It still does). He tuned the grand, then I would help him across the street to get back on the bus/ Glad to hear you are learning??? to play. maybe you can tickle the ivorys when we visit you.

 

[sospiri]

John,

Being a concert pianist, it must have been his natural wish that you should play also, but I think most music teachers would agree that forcing someone to practice in that manner is counter productive. People have got to want to learn to play an instrument, and the instrument of their choice too. I just wonder how many kids at my school were put off learning music altogether through being badgered into learning to play violin - many, I'm sure. And the noise that some of them produced was excruciating.

I first had piano lessons when I was 7, though I know that the tendency nowadays is to start a lot earlier. I had no problem - at that age as I was a natural, never practiced yet could always play the piece to perfection when the teacher appeared the following week. But my mother thought she was wasting her hard-earned money because I never practiced. So she didn't take much convincing that I wanted to give it up and go and play cowboys & Indians with my mates on the bombsite next door. It didn't really help that the piano was a load of rubbish and wouldn't hold its tuning. So cowboys and indians it was until I was either 12 or 13 years old.

By then we'd moved to Kings Heath and my father had died and money was tighter than ever. My mother was doing three part-time jobs to make ends meet, so we didn't see a lot of each other as two of those jobs were evening work. I had no mates locally and I needed two buses to get to school. My younger brother was always outside in the garden shed, so, all on my own, I renewed my acquaintance with the out-of-tune piano without any distractions.

My uncle and grandmother moved from Aston to a house just seven doors down the same road. He didn't play, but by default, he had some years earlier become the custodian of his elder brother's piano, quite a nice instrument. But uncle wanted to get rid of it, came round one evening when I happened to be struggling to play the wreck , and asked me if I wanted it for free. No more piano lessons as mother couldn't afford them and I was quite happy practicing on my own, which I did a lot lot more of once I had a decent piano.

Abandoning lessons is not a good idea because it gets you into all sorts of bad habits like wrong fingering, and it is much more difficult to correct this a few years on. But Eddie has got good teachers and is keen and the main thing is that he is really enjoying himself.

Maurice

 

[norfolk brummie]

I was talking about OUR drummer TED (EDDIE) YOU!!! I did know about Joe Morello who was the base player in Brubeck's group?

Brubeck's bass player was Eugene Wright, John.
Eddie

 

[norfolk brummie]

I

Eddie not sure if you knew that my Dad. Bert Crump, was a concert pianist, Do you remember that he always had a grand piano in the front room. A Bleuthner I think. Glad to hear you are learning??? to play. maybe you can tickle the ivorys when we visit you.

Strange that John. I was aware that you had a piano at your home in Yardley. I even remember your dear dad, but I had no idea that he was a concert pianist. That is lovely to hear, and to realise where your own musical background began.

I am enjoying the piano playing, and the lessons. It keeps my brain active, and my fingers nimble.
Eddie

 

[oldbrit]

My Dad during the war played a Piano concert at the Brum Town Hall I remember going with Mom and Joan and hearing him play the 'Warsaw Concerto' very moving to say the least. Dad loved to play and every where he went, if there was a piano, he would sit down and tinkle around on it. WE had a Piano store in Denver Colorado, when he visited us, he would like to go down there and look at the pianos and of course play a tune or two. The salesmen there got quite a kick out of it, This old grey haired English guy playing their pianos, must be a celebrity or some such? I think the reason I took up the Sax, is that I did NOT want to be like Dad, but have my own identity, maybe I was rebel, always liked to do something new and different, go new places explore. get away from the norm. Sure did that didnt I? 60 years later I am still the same. Have quite a bucket list even now

 

[oldbrit]

John,

Being a concert pianist, it must have been his natural wish that you should play also, but I think most music teachers would agree that forcing someone to practice in that manner is counter productive. People have got to want to learn to play an instrument, and the instrument of their choice too. I just wonder how many kids at my school were put off learning music altogether through being badgered into learning to play violin - many, I'm sure. And the noise that some of them produced was excruciating.

I first had piano lessons when I was 7, though I know that the tendency nowadays is to start a lot earlier. I had no problem - at that age as I was a natural, never practiced yet could always play the piece to perfection when the teacher appeared the following week. But my mother thought she was wasting her hard-earned money because I never practiced. So she didn't take much convincing that I wanted to give it up and go and play cowboys & Indians with my mates on the bombsite next door. It didn't really help that the piano was a load of rubbish and wouldn't hold its tuning. So cowboys and indians it was until I was either 12 or 13 years old.

By then we'd moved to Kings Heath and my father had died and money was tighter than ever. My mother was doing three part-time jobs to make ends meet, so we didn't see a lot of each other as two of those jobs were evening work. I had no mates locally and I needed two buses to get to school. My younger brother was always outside in the garden shed, so, all on my own, I renewed my acquaintance with the out-of-tune piano without any distractions.

My uncle and grandmother moved from Aston to a house just seven doors down the same road. He didn't play, but by default, he had some years earlier become the custodian of his elder brother's piano, quite a nice instrument. But uncle wanted to get rid of it, came round one evening when I happened to be struggling to play the wreck , and asked me if I wanted it for free. No more piano lessons as mother couldn't afford them and I was quite happy practicing on my own, which I did a lot lot more of once I had a decent piano.

Abandoning lessons is not a good idea because it gets you into all sorts of bad habits like wrong fingering, and it is much more difficult to correct this a few years on. But Eddie has got good teachers and is keen and the main thing is that he is really enjoying himself.

Maurice

John,

Being a concert pianist, it must have been his natural wish that you should play also, but I think most music teachers would agree that forcing someone to practice in that manner is counter productive. People have got to want to learn to play an instrument, and the instrument of their choice too. I just wonder how many kids at my school were put off learning music altogether through being badgered into learning to play violin - many, I'm sure. And the noise that some of them produced was excruciating.

I first had piano lessons when I was 7, though I know that the tendency nowadays is to start a lot earlier. I had no problem - at that age as I was a natural, never practiced yet could always play the piece to perfection when the teacher appeared the following week. But my mother thought she was wasting her hard-earned money because I never practiced. So she didn't take much convincing that I wanted to give it up and go and play cowboys & Indians with my mates on the bombsite next door. It didn't really help that the piano was a load of rubbish and wouldn't hold its tuning. So cowboys and indians it was until I was either 12 or 13 years old.

By then we'd moved to Kings Heath and my father had died and money was tighter than ever. My mother was doing three part-time jobs to make ends meet, so we didn't see a lot of each other as two of those jobs were evening work. I had no mates locally and I needed two buses to get to school. My younger brother was always outside in the garden shed, so, all on my own, I renewed my acquaintance with the out-of-tune piano without any distractions.

My uncle and grandmother moved from Aston to a house just seven doors down the same road. He didn't play, but by default, he had some years earlier become the custodian of his elder brother's piano, quite a nice instrument. But uncle wanted to get rid of it, came round one evening when I happened to be struggling to play the wreck , and asked me if I wanted it for free. No more piano lessons as mother couldn't afford them and I was quite happy practicing on my own, which I did a lot lot more of once I had a decent piano.

Abandoning lessons is not a good idea because it gets you into all sorts of bad habits like wrong fingering, and it is much more difficult to correct this a few years on. But Eddie has got good teachers and is keen and the main thing is that he is really enjoying himself.

Maurice[/QU

 

[norfolk brummie]

This piano playing lark. Seem to be playing more scales than on a fish, but great fun.

Now over a dozen chord variations instilled into my brain, with masses more still to learn, and recognize.

Also playing pieces of music with more confidence, and fingers now appear to be hitting the correct keys with less difficulty.

Real joy today. I played two chorus' of a well known song, melody and chords, without reading the music, as I have learned it note for note. Something I would never have believed possible a few months back. Certainly impressed the wife.

Thoroughly recommend it to anyone as a very enjoyable pastime, without trying to be Liberace.

Eddie

 

[sospiri]

Eddie,

You amaze me - very pleasantly! Playing scales, whilst quite boring at times, has immense benefits for your future playing.

Jazz, of course has its own set of scales. They're what the young jazz musicians of today learn and why they come out of music college able to improvise so well. Way back in the 1980s, Larry Coryell wrote a series of articles for The Guitarist magazine detailing all these jazz scales for guitarists - using treble clef only, of course. It was one of the many ways in which he helped young musicians, not just guitarists. I re-read a few of them the other week and wished that they had been around when I was getting into jazz playing and arranging. But I'm not trying to get you to run before you can walk. just trying to confirm that there is a good reason for everything!

And you're coming on brilliantly.

Maurice

 

[oldbrit]

Great Eddie. Play by ear, as my Sax teacher use to say.

 

[Bob Davis]

Eddie
Visiting the Midlands this weekend I accompanied my wife into Webbs of Wych old garden centre and did what I always do and went and browsed the books. Found a very interesting one 'Learn to play the Drums'. I would have paid the £4,99 for it, but there was no Drum Kit. However the jests aside the reason for the post is that on one of the pages there was a picture of an elderly Art Blakey at his drum kit and high on his right hand side was a clearly marked Zildjian cymbal. Two hours later listening to Jazz FM they played Moanin' by Tony Allen from his record Tribute to Art Blakey. Life is full of strange coincidences Quite a good version

Bob

 

[sospiri]

The 2017 toll of musical deaths still goes on with the death of Gregg Allman yesterday at the age of 69 years. Far too early. R.I.P.

Maurice

 

[norfolk brummie]

Eddie
Visiting the Midlands this weekend I accompanied my wife into Webbs of Wych old garden centre and did what I always do and went and browsed the books. Found a very interesting one 'Learn to play the Drums'. I would have paid the £4,99 for it, but there was no Drum Kit. However the jests aside the reason for the post is that on one of the pages there was a picture of an elderly Art Blakey at his drum kit and high on his right hand side was a clearly marked Zildjian cymbal. Two hours later listening to Jazz FM they played Moanin' by Tony Allen from his record Tribute to Art Blakey. Life is full of strange coincidences Quite a good version

Bob

Hi Bob. Nice to read your posting about Art Blakey. I had the pleasure of meeting Art when I was the International Sales & Promotions Manager for Zildjian Cymbals.

My position with the most famous cymbal name in the world, gave me access to all the great drummers, and they were always very kind and willing to talk. They needed me as much as I needed them !

I suspect that the photograph you saw was taken sometime after the late 1970's. It was not until then that we began to mark the cymbals with the Zildjian logo. No doubt Art was also playing his Gretsch drum kit. Art worked a lot with pianist Bobby Timmons, who actually wrote "Moanin", one of the more famous jazz tunes.

Eddie

 

[norfolk brummie]

The 2017 toll of musical deaths still goes on with the death of Gregg Allman yesterday at the age of 69 years. Far too early. R.I.P.

Maurice

Only just read this Maurice.

Very sad. As you rightly say......Far too early.

Gregg and Duane Allman (The Allman Brothers), were real rock pioneers, commencing in the 1960's, and have contributed a vast amount of recorded music over the years.

Not really my scene, but they are held in great respect by the rock fraternity.

Eddie

 

[Bob Davis]

Eddie/Maurice
Another death to report, someone one or both of you might have come across. Saxophonist John Renforth known professionally as John Marshall, played with Chet Baker, The Faces, The Blue Flames, he also toured with Ella. He finished up in North Devon where he formed The Nice, The North Devon Jazz Quarte. He was 86.

Bob

 

[sospiri]

Bob,

I have to put my hand up here and admit that I have never encountered John. Neither can I find a YouTube clip to link to as there also appears to be a much younger tenor player of the same name that used to attend the Manhattan School of Music. The only comprehensive bio appears to be the one on Devon Live.com. I see that from 1962-64 he was with Georgie Fame, but I can't remember him with that band. Perhaps Eddie may have some recollections.

Maurice

 

[norfolk brummie]

Sorry Bob. Like Maurice, I am unaware of John Marshall, saxophone. The only John Marshall I am aware of, indeed know, is John Marshall, drummer (Nucleus), (Alexis Korner), and John has also worked with many top American and European musicians in the field of jazz.

He is a bit younger than myself, probably now in his mid seventies.

If your John Marshall worked with Chet Baker, I would think it must have been during Chet's days in Europe, mainly France. If he was with Georgie Fames backing band, The Blue Flames between 62-64, then that would have been in the early days, at the Flamingo Club, in London. After those early days, Georgie Fame concentrated more on working with jazz musicians, and big bands, although I seem to remember that, for a while, he revived his Blue Flames around the mid seventies.

Eddie

 

[Bob Davis]

Sorry Bob. Like Maurice, I am unaware of John Marshall, saxophone. The only John Marshall I am aware of, indeed know, is John Marshall, drummer (Nucleus), (Alexis Korner), and John has also worked with many top American and European musicians in the field of jazz.

He is a bit younger than myself, probably now in his mid seventies.

If your John Marshall worked with Chet Baker, I would think it must have been during Chet's days in Europe, mainly France. If he was with Georgie Fames backing band, The Blue Flames between 62-64, then that would have been in the early days, at the Flamingo Club, in London. After those early days, Georgie Fame concentrated more on working with jazz musicians, and big bands, although I seem to remember that, for a while, he revived his Blue Flames around the mid seventies.

Eddie

Eddie/Maurice

I will try and scan the article and put it on the forum tomorrow or Tuesday

Bob

 

[Bob Davis]

Eddie/Maurice

I will try and scan the article and put it on the forum tomorrow or Tuesday

Bob

Eddie/Maurice
My wife took the paper to Gloucester while she looks after my daughter who has broken her leg. Despite many requests no one has brought me their copy and the other it is not on the North Devon Journals Web page yet.
Bob

 

[Andy Jervis]

Eddie
Visiting the Midlands this weekend I accompanied my wife into Webbs of Wych old garden centre and did what I always do and went and browsed the books. Found a very interesting one 'Learn to play the Drums'. I would have paid the £4,99 for it, but there was no Drum Kit. However the jests aside the reason for the post is that on one of the pages there was a picture of an elderly Art Blakey at his drum kit and high on his right hand side was a clearly marked Zildjian cymbal. Two hours later listening to Jazz FM they played Moanin' by Tony Allen from his record Tribute to Art Blakey. Life is full of strange coincidences Quite a good version

Bob

Just got into this site, looking to see if anyone knew if Colin Hulme was still around. Last time I knew of him was in Nottingham 30 years ago. Incidentally Eddie, are you the same Eddie for whom I tested some new models of Zildian Cymbals and worked at Premier when I was with Syd Lawrence? Now there's a blast from the past!

 

[norfolk brummie]

Just got into this site, looking to see if anyone knew if Colin Hulme was still around. Last time I knew of him was in Nottingham 30 years ago. Incidentally Eddie, are you the same Eddie for whom I tested some new models of Zildian Cymbals and worked at Premier when I was with Syd Lawrence? Now there's a blast from the past!

Hi Andy,
The very same Eddie, old friend !
How are you? Still playing?
I've no idea if Colin is still around. Long after he retired as a band leader, he still lived in Nottingham, and was doing woodwind repairs. I took our daughter over to him, would have been late seventies, and he repaired her oboe. Have not heard anything since.
We now live in North Norfolk, not far from Sheringham and Cromer.
Almost 84, on October 2nd, and still in touch with some of the old faces.

Send me a private message on this website, with your email or telephone details.

Would be great to talk,

Eddie