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Memories of a Birmingham Musician (Drummer)!

I love that Maurice. Wonderful story.

Yes, I agree. In the traditional dress suit, or as we sometimes referred to it , the 'Penguin Suit', we did feel like the waiters at some of the functions we played at. To have a different mode of dress, I have to say, did make us feel different.

When we played the Pavilion, Bournemouth, we would, on a very hot day, just revert to white shirt, bow tie, and black trousers. For the evening dance, we always wore a band uniform of some type.

Eddie
 
Eddie,

In the latter half of the 1960s our band used to do the Wednesday tea dances at the Pavilion in our old Poole Harbour Yacht Club band jackets just to distinguish us from our regular job, the Cumberland Hotel band, which had a sort of maroon coloured jacket. We also had Lennie Wright on drums as our regular drummer had a day job that precluded him from being available. Lennie led the PHYC band and provided the jackets, so that was handy on two counts! I may have posted the picture before.

Maurice
 

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Last evening I watched the TV story of the more private life of Bob Monkhouse, which brought back a few memories.

During the early 1950's, and into the 60's, and a few times in later years, between playing in ballrooms, and jazz clubs, I would often be called to play at a working mans club, some cabaret club, or corporate function.

This work would inevitably include backing a comedian. Sometimes just "on and off" music, or the occasional song, which many a comedian would love to include in his, or her, act.

There used to be a 'rule of thumb' used by comedians. If they, or a joke, could make the band laugh, then they had cracked it.

I have often sat in the band, behind some very well known comedian, that may be making the audience laugh, but the band would merely sit there, listening to the patter, but probably thinking " I wonder if I will be able to get a pint before the bar closes?".

Quite often this was a test that the great comedians knew how to handle. .

Much as I would have loved to, I never worked with Morecombe & Wise, Les Dawson or Spike Milligan. I did work with Ken Dodd, Dave Allen, Tommy Cooper, Dickie Henderson and Bob Monkhouse.. These wonderful comedians would not only interact with the audience, but also with the band. Even backstage, they were usually very friendly towards musicians.

I have only mentioned male comics, but another great comic that I enjoyed working with was Joan Turner. Not only could she mix it with the other greats, and tell really funny stories, but she had the most incredible singing voice, that spanned a few octaves. A sort of Harry Secombe comedian. She would never sing a song all the way through. She would stop, right in the middle of a spectacular piece, and then make a joke, with either the band, or the audience.

Watching TV these days, the 'modern' bunch of comedians I do not like. Too much swearing and lavatory type humour. Also they never seem to work with a band, which ponders the question.

Do musicians appreciate their humour?

The only one that I an call to mind is Frank Skinner, who often, on his TV show, joked with his band, which he named as "The Skinnerettes".

Eddie
 
Eddie,

I agree with you 100% in your comments, though you have worked with far more comedians than me. Bob Monkhouse - brilliant and a lovely man, who would generally be booked for a 20 minute spot and end up doing an hour, almost all of it ad libbed - he just had a vast library of jokes stored in his head and if he hadn't got one to suit the occasion, would just conjure one up out of thin air. Dickie Henderson we saw a lot of when we were resident at Poole Harbour Yacht Club in the early 1960s as his sister and her husband lived locally and were in for dinner and a bit of a dance several times a week. He was another easy going guy. Tommy Cooper had a bit of a reputation amongst musicians for never never buying a round, but I can't say that in the few times that I met him at Bournemouth Pavilion that I could verify that, but he was a funny man on stage, there's no doubt about that.

As I worked in the Cumberland Hotel, at that time a Jewish hotel, they tended to book mainly Jewish artistes (such as Bob & Davy Kaye) to suit their audience. I never heard any blue jokes or bad language, such as you frequently hear today, yet the audience thoroughly enjoyed the acts. The vocalists, such as Alma Cogan (her aunt was a regular visitor) always gave encores, & the comedians always overrun their allotted time. Happy days.

Maurice
 
I'm sorry to have to report the death of Bradford-born guitarist Allan Holdsworth this Easter Sunday at the age of 70. Well known for his work with Gordon Beck, Soft Machine, Level 42 and many others. R.I.P. Allan

Maurice
 
And after a sad posting I couldn't resist posting this, which I found as a signature on my keyboard forum:-

My dad said "Son, never go to any of those
cheap, dirty, nasty, sleazy strip clubs.
You'll see something you shouldn't see".
Of course I went and I saw my dad.
~ Rick Wakeman

Maurice :)
 
I'm sorry to have to report the death of Bradford-born guitarist Allan Holdsworth this Easter Sunday at the age of 70. Well known for his work with Gordon Beck, Soft Machine, Level 42 and many others. R.I.P. Allan

Maurice

A very fine guitar player, Maurice.

Sad....."Another one bites the dust"

R.I.P Alan Holdsworth.

Eddie
 
Indeed, Eddie, and well known in recent years for promoting his headless guitar. So rather than post the usual musical clip - there's plenty on YouTube - I couldn't resist posting this with Allan talking in his own inimitable way. Enjoy....

Maurice

 
And after a sad posting I couldn't resist posting this, which I found as a signature on my keyboard forum:-

My dad said "Son, never go to any of those
cheap, dirty, nasty, sleazy strip clubs.
You'll see something you shouldn't see".
Of course I went and I saw my dad.
~ Rick Wakeman
Maurice :)

I told this lovely short story to Steve Gibson, who is currently one of the U.K top drummers.

Steve told me that his own dad, who was also a musician, backed a lot of strippers in clubs, and always came home with a smile on his face !

Eddie
 
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There used to be a club out in the New Forest that had strippers on a fairly regular basis and was one of the few places in the area I hadn't played at one time or another. The regular pianist was an old guy, but very competent, who didn't drive, but always waited for the milkman to arrive at about 6:00am so that he could cadge a lift back into Bournemouth. But he seemed very happy to do the job - I wonder why! :)

Maurice
 
Many years ago, it would have been around 1979/80, I was flying from Heathrow to Stockholm.
I had boarded the plane, and was taking my seat, when this man came down the aisle, put a tenor sax case into the overhead locker, and sat down next to me.

Intrigued, I left it for a few moments, then casually said something like "I take it you are a tenor sax player?". The man replied that he was travelling to Sweden to take part in a few jazz concerts.

I asked him his name. "Bud Freeman" he replied. It was a good job I was sitting down. Here I was, sitting next to, and talking to, one of the all time great American jazz saxophone players.

Fortunately for me, Bud knew all about Avedis Zildjian cymbals, the American company for which I worked, and who's products, as a drummer, I played and demonstrated. I was also well read on the old days of American Chicago jazz, so we spent two very pleasant hours chatting all about music.

Bud was a lovely man, very well mannered, and a wonderful saxophone player. I believe that he died in the early nineties.
 

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Hi Eddie,

15 March 1991 to be precise and how lucky you were to have an intimate chat with such a great player. It's difficult to find many videos of Bud on YouTube - many have poor audio or poor lighting - but I quite like this one. On guitar is Oscar Klein & on bass is Lino Petruno. On the second number they are joined by the Porteno Jazz Band of Buenos Aires. Enjoy.

Maurice

 
Hi Eddie,

15 March 1991 to be precise and how lucky you were to have an intimate chat with such a great player. It's difficult to find many videos of Bud on YouTube - many have poor audio or poor lighting - but I quite like this one. On guitar is Oscar Klein & on bass is Lino Petruno. On the second number they are joined by the Porteno Jazz Band of Buenos Aires. Enjoy.

Maurice

Very nice! My wife liked it too!
Dave A
 
Eddie
Listening to Jazz FM over the weekend, heard a recording of Harlem Shuffle by Herlin Riley. Some super brushwork on it but also some good individual solos, sax, trumpet and piano. Two questions, I have never heard of him but from what I read he apparently is connected with the Lincoln Centre and second question who says for any piece of music whether big band or group, the drummer will use brushes? I hope this is not going off thread.

Bob
 
Another sad disappearance from the jazz scene is probably the world's greatest vibes player, Gary Burton, now retiring from both performing and recording on health grounds.

https://downbeat.com/news/detail/qa-with-gary-burton-a-fond-farewell

Maurice

Wonderful musician, Maurice.

I first heard Gary when he was with the Stan Getz Group, and some of his later work with Chick Corea. Always enjoyed his music.

I had no idea of his health problems, and would wish him well in his future years.

Spent a wonderful Saturday evening listening to a piano/bass/drums trio of very fine young jazz musicians, backing a superb singer, all of whom did great justice to the wonderful American Song Book of great 'standards'.

All four are studying jazz at the Trinity College of Music in London. Their jazz playing, and soloing, belied their young lives. So wonderful to know that there are still young people out there, with a deep love of jazz.

Our daughter had booked them to play at our grand daughters wedding here in Norfolk, and they gave an hours performance, before the younger set and disco music started.

I sat down with these four lovely people and had a chance to talk with them. They were asking my advice as to what course the should take when leaving Trinity. I had to be brutally frank and say that making a living playing jazz was tough, but I wished them every success. Their enthusiasm, musicianship, youth and honesty, gave me hope that the future of our music is in good hands.

Beryl and I enjoyed the wedding, but the music was 'cream on the top', so to speak.

Eddie
 

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Eddie
Listening to Jazz FM over the weekend, heard a recording of Harlem Shuffle by Herlin Riley. Some super brushwork on it but also some good individual solos, sax, trumpet and piano. Two questions, I have never heard of him but from what I read he apparently is connected with the Lincoln Centre and second question who says for any piece of music whether big band or group, the drummer will use brushes? I hope this is not going off thread.

Bob

Hi Bob,

Apologies for delay in responding. As they say, time flies when you are having fun!

Herlin Riley has been around a few years. He has worked with George Benson, singer Harry Connick Jnr, and Wynton Marsalis. Wynton and Herlin work together, as you rightly say, with the Lincoln Centre Jazz Orchestra. I have never met him, but understand that he is a wonderful man, now in his sixties.

An arranger will often write into the arrangement a note stating "brushes" or "sticks"....even "mallets", and a drummer will follow the arrangers instructions.

However, when playing unarranged music, a good drummer is able to discern whether to use brushes or sticks, and the other band musicians will accept that. Brushes offer a much softer, 'warmer' feel to the rhythm, and are perfect for quieter passes within the music.

At times t can be a little more complicated that that, but that is the simple answer.

Maurice has undertaken much arranging for bands, so maybe he might want to give a few thoughts to this very good question. Personally, I have never had any problem as to whether I use brushes or sticks.

Hope my response to your questions has helped.

Eddie
 
Eddie,

I'm glad you enjoyed the wedding and it was a nice gesture from your daughter to organise the performance by the Trinity musicians. That would have made my day too.

I'm amazed at the standard of musicianship of these young musicians and have been for some years now. It's very difficult to give musical advice today. Even in Hollywood studios there are few conventional musicians actually making a living from music as many films have electronic music by the likes of Hans Zimmer (synthesisers & samples) and his reputation is now such that he's doing lots of concert performances that would have previously been carried out by groups of "conventional" musicians. Before someone shoots me down, I'm a great admirer of Hans Zimmer and I'm well aware that much of his recent American concert tour was taken up with him playing ordinary acoustic piano.

Symphony orchestras have now been drastically cut back and themselves rely on subsidies & sponsorship to keep going. For this reason we are finding high class musicians playing in small groups in bars for a pittance. I think that they they will have to accept that cannot make a living from performance alone these days, and an element of teaching will be making up a sizeable part of their income. How successful this combination is, will depend upon whereabouts they are living. They have a fighting chance in the bigger cities, but then accommodation is much more expensive

Cover bands are still a fairly big in the States (if you can stand the boring repetition), but not so much in the UK. And be prepared to travel. Which brings me back to Gary Burton. Constant travel takes it out on your health, and Gary even wrote his only book on this subject - I have a copy - entitled A Musician's Guide to the Road. Many jazz musicians are now almost constant travellers and Gary certainly has been, as had Chick Corea, for over 50 years.

Bob,

Following on from Eddie's comment on sticks or brushes, rarely have I found it necessary to specify in arrangements. For small group parts, I've frequently not even bothered to write a drum part. If I've been the leader or the keyboard player and I've not liked the drummer's interpretation, I've gently told him so. When writing big band parts, I've not generally been the leader and thought it best for the leader to specificy if he didn't like the drummer's choice. Drummers that get to play in big bands, even rehearsal only bands, are almost always good experienced drummers who keep good time, and unlike certain rock bands, don't argue about such matters. One other point, it may depend upon the environment in which you are playing. And this equally applies to the use of mutes on brass instruments and choices of electronic organ stops - if you're playing background music for diners, you certainly don't want them to choke on their dinner! :)

Maurice
 
Eddie,

I'm glad you enjoyed the wedding and it was a nice gesture from your daughter to organise the performance by the Trinity musicians. That would have made my day too.

I'm amazed at the standard of musicianship of these young musicians and have been for some years now. It's very difficult to give musical advice today.

Symphony orchestras have now been drastically cut back and themselves rely on subsidies & sponsorship to keep going. For this reason we are finding high class musicians playing in small groups in bars for a pittance. I think that they they will have to accept that cannot make a living from performance alone these days, and an element of teaching will be making up a sizeable part of their income. How successful this combination is, will depend upon whereabouts they are living. They have a fighting chance in the bigger cities, but then accommodation is much more expensive


Bob,

Following on from Eddie's comment on sticks or brushes, rarely have I found it necessary to specify in arrangements. For small group parts, I've frequently not even bothered to write a drum part. If I've been the leader or the keyboard player and I've not liked the drummer's interpretation, I've gently told him so. When writing big band parts, I've not generally been the leader and thought it best for the leader to specificy if he didn't like the drummer's choice. Drummers that get to play in big bands, even rehearsal only bands, are almost always good experienced drummers who keep good time, and unlike certain rock bands, don't argue about such matters. One other point, it may depend upon the environment in which you are playing. And this equally applies to the use of mutes on brass instruments and choices of electronic organ stops - if you're playing background music for diners, you certainly don't want them to choke on their dinner! :)

Maurice

Pretty much as the advice I gave to those young jazz musicians Maurice.
I told them to stay in London, get their name and reputation around, get to know everyone. Be prepared to starve a little, and also teach.

Also agree that many arrangers do not specify stick or brushes for the drummer, although I have played arrangements where the heading states that. Sometimes in the middle of an arrangement I have come across a change to either sticks or brushes, but, as you rightly say, a good drummer is usually able to do the right thing, at the right moment.

Eddie
 
Eddie,

We are much in agreement. One more thing, get to be a member of all the forums/fora for your particular instrument. I use Keyboard Corner although I have been out of the business for years. Sometimes quite well known musicians masquerade under oddball usernames, but the amount of friendly and expert advice to be gained here is enormous. Would be professional musicians are forever asking the same sort of questions as your Trinity four were and getting it relative to different areas of the world.

Maurice
 
Very nice Dave. Two great musicians, and most enjoyable. Gary playing a Mussor vibraphone.

Eddie
That was the only time I saw Gary Burton...Chick Corea, I've seen him many times. Tomorrow, my wife and I will be seeing J M Jarre in concert, one of the few musical events that I can share with my her.
Dave A
 
Hi Bob,

Apologies for delay in responding. As they say, time flies when you are having fun!

Herlin Riley has been around a few years. He has worked with George Benson, singer Harry Connick Jnr, and Wynton Marsalis. Wynton and Herlin work together, as you rightly say, with the Lincoln Centre Jazz Orchestra. I have never met him, but understand that he is a wonderful man, now in his sixties.

An arranger will often write into the arrangement a note stating "brushes" or "sticks"....even "mallets", and a drummer will follow the arrangers instructions.

However, when playing unarranged music, a good drummer is able to discern whether to use brushes or sticks, and the other band musicians will accept that. Brushes offer a much softer, 'warmer' feel to the rhythm, and are perfect for quieter passes within the music.

At times t can be a little more complicated that that, but that is the simple answer.

Maurice has undertaken much arranging for bands, so maybe he might want to give a few thoughts to this very good question. Personally, I have never had any problem as to whether I use brushes or sticks.

Hope my response to your questions has helped.

Eddie
Many thanks
Bob
 
Eddie,

I'm glad you enjoyed the wedding and it was a nice gesture from your daughter to organise the performance by the Trinity musicians. That would have made my day too.

I'm amazed at the standard of musicianship of these young musicians and have been for some years now. It's very difficult to give musical advice today. Even in Hollywood studios there are few conventional musicians actually making a living from music as many films have electronic music by the likes of Hans Zimmer (synthesisers & samples) and his reputation is now such that he's doing lots of concert performances that would have previously been carried out by groups of "conventional" musicians. Before someone shoots me down, I'm a great admirer of Hans Zimmer and I'm well aware that much of his recent American concert tour was taken up with him playing ordinary acoustic piano.

Symphony orchestras have now been drastically cut back and themselves rely on subsidies & sponsorship to keep going. For this reason we are finding high class musicians playing in small groups in bars for a pittance. I think that they they will have to accept that cannot make a living from performance alone these days, and an element of teaching will be making up a sizeable part of their income. How successful this combination is, will depend upon whereabouts they are living. They have a fighting chance in the bigger cities, but then accommodation is much more expensive

Cover bands are still a fairly big in the States (if you can stand the boring repetition), but not so much in the UK. And be prepared to travel. Which brings me back to Gary Burton. Constant travel takes it out on your health, and Gary even wrote his only book on this subject - I have a copy - entitled A Musician's Guide to the Road. Many jazz musicians are now almost constant travellers and Gary certainly has been, as had Chick Corea, for over 50 years.

Bob,

Following on from Eddie's comment on sticks or brushes, rarely have I found it necessary to specify in arrangements. For small group parts, I've frequently not even bothered to write a drum part. If I've been the leader or the keyboard player and I've not liked the drummer's interpretation, I've gently told him so. When writing big band parts, I've not generally been the leader and thought it best for the leader to specificy if he didn't like the drummer's choice. Drummers that get to play in big bands, even rehearsal only bands, are almost always good experienced drummers who keep good time, and unlike certain rock bands, don't argue about such matters. One other point, it may depend upon the environment in which you are playing. And this equally applies to the use of mutes on brass instruments and choices of electronic organ stops - if you're playing background music for diners, you certainly don't want them to choke on their dinner! :)

Maurice
Again as for Eddie very many thanks, I have to say when my two young grandsons started to play drums, I was amazed to see music written for them, however it was nothing to the surprise I got watching an old programme on Sky some years ago that featured a group of well known jazz men 'jamming', all reading from music. I cannot think for the life of me who they were but I am certain Dizzy Gillespie was amongst them. Again thanks to both of you for the info
Bob
 
Lucky guy, Dave, never managed to see either of them live, Jarre I'm not so worried about. It was 2014 before I managed to see Spyro Gyra and had to go to Luxembourg for that!

Maurice
 
Yes, John, Colin was another great loss to Brum music. I was very saddened when I met up with Johnny Patrick a few years ago and he told be that Colin had passed away only three months earlier. Those two used to jam a lot of a Saturday lunchtime upstairs in the Chapel Tavern in Great Charles Street in the late 1950s.

Maurice
 
Gawd we were young. Paul Desmond and Dave Bruebeck wanabees. No idea who the drummer was (TED?) MI5 was asking about him, think he changed his name? HaHa!!!!! I have to leave the country for drinking to many Double Diamonds, remember them?
 

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Gawd we were young. Paul Desmond and Dave Bruebeck wanabees. No idea who the drummer was (TED?) MI5 was asking about him, think he changed his name? HaHa!!!!! I have to leave the country for drinking to many Double Diamonds, remember them?

Before the wonderful Joe Morello joined the Dave Brubeck Quartet, the drummer was Joe Dodge

Met Joe M. a few times. Wonderful man.

Eddie
 

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