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Bankrupt Birmingham!

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There was a write up a couple of weeks regarding how much certain taxi companies were being paid taking children to and from school. It was ridiculous amounts for such short journeys.
I dont think that is just Birmingham.
With regard to taking no notice of the designers of a system, the Pos tOffice did believe what the designer said and refused to believe otherwise, thus ruining the lives of hundreds of sub post office workers., and the firm concerned has not yet paid compensation (or been made bankrupt)
 
No - the BBC bought SAP then tried to configure it to match the BBC process, rather than adjusting the BBC process to match SAP. Birmingham was ORACLE not SAP, but the same mistake......
And I am sure most of the people that did that are still there looking for something else to screw up. its like a US senator told one of the Washington idiots: "you screw up and come back for more money, in industry you would not have a job".
 
hi john ... do not be surprised if the work does continue..cant have it looking a dump outside the council house:eek:...will keep an eye on that

lyn
If they are talking about prioritising core services and not carrying out or postponing non-essential spending, then continuing the work in front of the Council House itself, may not go down too well with residents, but as the work has already begun, it could be considered an existing contract/commitment that should still be honoured. It will be interesting to see if the work continues.
 
How can the largest local authority in Europe allow itself to get into a position, where the only option is to declare itself bankrupt? How embarrassing for the city and for it's residents. Joseph Chamberlain and those before and after him, that did so much to build this city, must be turning in their graves. It can only be total incompetence over a number of years, a total lack of foresight and a complete lack of risk assessment/management. Those responsible, that were no doubt busy "working on a beach" when this was allowed to happen, should hang their heads in shame and resign, without the customary six figure pay off, to cushion the blow.
Poor Brum, let's hope it gets sorted out soon, for all, past, present and future.
 
I will try not to get political, but it will all be solved very easily, thr government of the day will announce the annual council tax percentage increase with the exception of any bankrupt councils and there are a number. Çroydon were allowed tò charge 15 per cent this year.. Has Birmingham invested in any shopping centres or leisure centres outside the city?
Bob
 
This is strictly a legal maneuver to avoid paying bills. Some/many vendors will not get paid and the marginal ones will also go bankrupt or out of business. Unfortunately those who caused this will be relatively unscathed sans some embarrassment, financially they always seem to be fine! And might even get to keep or get new jobs!
Please understand that bankruptcy is only part of it. The other word in the filing is protection! The city is protected it's the supply side that gets take advantage of. And no one could see this coming? Really!
 
For years we have known that most computer projects will run massively over time and over budget. The larger they are and the further they drift from the initial specification the worse it will get. With a council system you have several hundred bosses each of whom will probably want it to do something it isn't likely to do to begin with. Add to that they're going to change every couple of years. The chances of something like that coming in on time and in budget are almost non-existent. If it's only a couple of million out, they were probably lucky. Now they will find out that it still doesn't do stuff that they really want it to do.
 
Birmingham Airport stake to be sold ? Increased Council Tax ?
That along with quite a few other investments, I would guess.
This is the bit I find utterly astonishing:- View attachment 183971
This guy is supposed to be in charge - being paid a kings ransom to do so - and yet he is oblivious to everything around him even though essential spending was halted a couple of months ago, and the government said this was expected. Utter incompetence!!!

As for who foots the bill, I am reminded of a quote from Blackadder - "Percy - one of us is for the chop. You or me in fact. Lets face it Perce - its you!!!"
It has now been reported, that the council leader's "long standing family commitments" are in fact a holiday in New York to celebrate his 50th birthday.
 
For years we have known that most computer projects will run massively over time and over budget. The larger they are and the further they drift from the initial specification the worse it will get. With a council system you have several hundred bosses each of whom will probably want it to do something it isn't likely to do to begin with. Add to that they're going to change every couple of years. The chances of something like that coming in on time and in budget are almost non-existent. If it's only a couple of million out, they were probably lucky. Now they will find out that it still doesn't do stuff that they really want it to do.
The sad thing, what you have said WAM has become the expectation and the norm! That is not to say things don’t go over budget etc. But when you have massive overruns and it still does not work right, it’s not good. I have worked in industry all of my life running big projects, most of which came in on time and budget, yes there were exceptions for cause but they worked. You are way way over budget and not sure it’s going to work. We had the same thing over here with the sold called affordable care act. The federal government spent over a billion $ using a suppler (someone’s friend) who was thrown out of Canada for messing up, they had to bring in a private communications company to fix. Oh, and everyone got to keep their job!
 
That along with quite a few other investments, I would guess.

It has now been reported, that the council leader's "long standing family commitments" are in fact a holiday in New York to celebrate his 50th birthday.
Now that should tell you about arrogance or maybe ignorance. My wife came from NYC and we try to go into the city when we visit relatives or go for weddings. We have two nieces and nephew who work in there, they told us to stay out of there because of the vagrants and crime. On niece an attorney when she goes in is armed legally and has someone meet her at the station.
I would not go there; visitors are down over 50% this year and crime is up over 100%. Maybe it's more stupidity than arrogance!
 
The sad thing is most of those running the council will still have jobs or a very soft landing.
It often seems, although it may be an effect of current reporting standards, that there is a line drawn across the pyramid of commercial operations. Those below the line, such as office staff, down to customers/ratepayers, will suffer in some way when things go wrong. This can be picking up the bill, losing jobs or becoming scapegoats. Perhaps all of those. Those above the line, up to the 'C' suite, or council leader, or whatever the functional name is, will slide seamlessly into new jobs at equivalent or higher levels.
It needs some accountability. If there is any sort of malfeasance established, then the boss (you know, the one who draws massive benefits through being 'in charge'), gets an automatic personal penalty. After all, in his/her position at the top, they must have allowed it to happen. Not a fine that is paid out of some company slush fund, but a period in the clink. A couple of months ought to focus the mind.

Andrew. (In slightly ranting mood due to the heat).
 
No - the BBC bought SAP then tried to configure it to match the BBC process, rather than adjusting the BBC process to match SAP. Birmingham was ORACLE not SAP, but the same mistake......
Indeed, - The online website "The Register" had an article about the Birmingham IT fiasco a couple of months ago. Apparently, the original agreement was that the Council would change their work practices to be in line with what ORACLE could do. But when push came to shove many of its departments demanded that ORACLE be customised to suit the way they worked. To be fair, ORACLE seems to have never been designed in the first place to cope with running a council, it's mostly used in the manufacturing industry. - Anyway, that has meant that many of Birminghams departments have continued to use the old SAP system, meaning the council has had to keep paying for both, along with the ongoing extra payments to customise ORACLE. The running of the duel system has meant that many of the council's contractors have been paid twice for the same work, while others have not been paid at all. - Full article at this link...
 
I'm wondering what this financial crisis will mean for Birmingham's museums. - The main Museum and Art Gallery has been closed for a few years now - will it ever reopen? - Also it seems that when the council closed down the old science museum and moved some of the exhibits to "Think Tank" they didn't actually buy the Think Tank building outright - They are only renting it. Now the owners of the building sniff higher profits by renting it out to some big corporate client once the HS2 station opens next door. Thinktank’s lease inside the building is due to expire in 2029. it seems "Think Tank" might find itself out on the streets!
 
It often seems, although it may be an effect of current reporting standards, that there is a line drawn across the pyramid of commercial operations. Those below the line, such as office staff, down to customers/ratepayers, will suffer in some way when things go wrong. This can be picking up the bill, losing jobs or becoming scapegoats. Perhaps all of those. Those above the line, up to the 'C' suite, or council leader, or whatever the functional name is, will slide seamlessly into new jobs at equivalent or higher levels.
It needs some accountability. If there is any sort of malfeasance established, then the boss (you know, the one who draws massive benefits through being 'in charge'), gets an automatic personal penalty. After all, in his/her position at the top, they must have allowed it to happen. Not a fine that is paid out of some company slush fund, but a period in the clink. A couple of months ought to focus the mind.

Andrew. (In slightly ranting mood due to the heat).
Agree Andrew! I have been at the C level in the private sector for too many years. Perform or you are done! That means profitably, safely, environmentally and with all human considerations.
 
This is the bit I find utterly astonishing:- View attachment 183971
This guy is supposed to be in charge - being paid a kings ransom to do so - and yet he is oblivious to everything around him even though essential spending was halted a couple of months ago, and the government said this was expected. Utter incompetence!!!

As for who foots the bill, I am reminded of a quote from Blackadder - "Percy - one of us is for the chop. You or me in fact. Lets face it Perce - its you!!!"
Mr. Cotton should go and whomever he reports to should as well!
 
Perhaps each council should appoint an experienced housewife to head the finance department. My wife, has a philosophy on any household expenditure. “ Can we afford it? Do we need it? Will we use it? Is it good value for money?” This mantra has served us well for 57 years. Perhaps it’s the mantra Birmingham city council and its officials should be reciting before each cheque is signed or bank transfer is actioned. It is unfair to blame the situation on the tea ladies, and cleaners, equal pay claims.
Birmingham is not on its own, many councils are spending tax payers money on grandiose scheme without asking “Can we afford it,” etc. Alf C.
 
I'm wondering what this financial crisis will mean for Birmingham's museums. - The main Museum and Art Gallery has been closed for a few years now - will it ever reopen? - Also it seems that when the council closed down the old science museum and moved some of the exhibits to "Think Tank" they didn't actually buy the Think Tank building outright - They are only renting it. Now the owners of the building sniff higher profits by renting it out to some big corporate client once the HS2 station opens next door. Thinktank’s lease inside the building is due to expire in 2029. it seems "Think Tank" might find itself out on the streets!
Perhaps they will take the opportunity to sell off a couple of the Pre-Raphaelite collection to balance the books, in the hope that none of us will notice, because we haven't been able to see them in any case. :rolleyes:
 
Perhaps each council should appoint an experienced housewife to head the finance department. My wife, has a philosophy on any household expenditure. “ Can we afford it? Do we need it? Will we use it? Is it good value for money?” This mantra has served us well for 57 years. Perhaps it’s the mantra Birmingham city council and its officials should be reciting before each cheque is signed or bank transfer is actioned. It is unfair to blame the situation on the tea ladies, and cleaners, equal pay claims.
Birmingham is not on its own, many councils are spending tax payers money on grandiose scheme without asking “Can we afford it,” etc. Alf C.
Chunky, your wife should be installed IMMEDIATELY! I am advising a new company and used those words yesterday on a zoom call. We have some very smart people that don’t understand the difference between need and want. Ah, then there’s the first one “can we afford it”. I would add, if it were my money would I do that! Most times in business the honest answer is NO!
 
Council statement….

Reveling article! I do not believe Birmingham can sustain a liability accumulating as much as £14 m per month on top of the already debt load. That says that the debt is growing plus interest at £1 per living person per month or thereabouts. They have to stop and renegotiate the terms of equal pay or it will bring everything to its knees! That is what Lee Iacocca did at Chrysler and everyone survive very well!
 
I wonder what they did with the £307 million they got when they sold the NEC in 2015.
Equal Pay…
“Recently the council (which previously had to sell off the NEC and pay a billion pounds because of this) admitted it faced potential liabilities on equal pay of up to another £760 million.” (ITV News)
 
Reveling article! I do not believe Birmingham can sustain a liability accumulating as much as £14 m per month on top of the already debt load. That says that the debt is growing plus interest at £1 per living person per month or thereabouts. They have to stop and renegotiate the terms of equal pay or it will bring everything to its knees! That is what Lee Iacocca did at Chrysler and everyone survive very well!
I remember the equal pay claim from nearly twenty years ago. The council did oppose the claim. Many years later the European Court said Birmingham Council were in the wrong and should uphold the claim from the female members who put in the original claim. Good for women's rights but costly for the council.
 
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