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John & Fanny Williams
- Thread starter devonjim
- Start date
devonjim
master brummie
Having a serious senior moment, somehow I have confused Cartland and Clifton. Well they both start with "C", both in Aston. Sorry!
devonjim
master brummie
Perhaps not as senile as I first thought! My GGrand dad had a shop in Clifton Rd., the Balsall Heath one, I remember visiting in early 1950's. Playing on google I think it was 321,(or nearby) Clifton Rd. By 1950 it would have been in the name of his son, Albert Williams, it was, if I remember mainly shoe repairs. Please can this be confirmed in a trade directory of the day?
brummy-lad
master brummie
devonjim
master brummie
Thanks! So on the corner with Stoney Lane.
brummy-lad
master brummie
Not sure if it was on the corner although it seems likely, I haven't got access to a 1950s map with house numbers which shows this area, perhaps somebody else can confirm this please. On google street view it looks as though it might have been where the garage is now.
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devonjim
master brummie
The grocery shop on the corner seems "right". Thanks Mike and Brummie-lad. Second picture my ggdad John Williams and his wife Fanny and I assume their daughter Maggie, who had six brothers. Whereas I remember meeting all the brothers, three worked on GWR, one for BCT and as I said one, the youngest took over the shoe repair business I have no knowledge of the daughter after 1911 census, when she was 15, and there are a lot of Maggie Williams on Ancestry!
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MWS
from Bham
She still appears to be single and living with parents in 1921 at 31 Abbotsford Road.
And she still seems to be listed there (Florence Margaret) on 1930 ER.
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devonjim
master brummie
There's a couple of B'ham weddings in 1935 of a Florence M Williams,(groom Wager or Standley) which would fit with your findings, I guess I need to get marriage certs to see if they confirm. Thanks for your research, I never got past "Maggie" even knowing what church was likely to have held a Christening.
Following up in 1939 census I see that these two Florence Williams's are too young! Should have known it was not that easy. Cheaper than buying certs.
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MWS
from Bham
Did her brother Alfred marry in Monmouthshire (Chepstow) ? If so possible wider connections which would make it harder.
If it was me (and I was completely stuck) I'd buy her birth certificate first to learn her dob and search the 1939 register with that. At the least you'd be spending money on something that's certainly hers.
If it was me (and I was completely stuck) I'd buy her birth certificate first to learn her dob and search the 1939 register with that. At the least you'd be spending money on something that's certainly hers.
Eric Gibson
master brummie
There's a website where a lot of Lydney stuff is posted, maybe of no interest but you never know.
https://www.sungreen.co.uk/Forest-of-Dean/family-history-research.html
https://www.sungreen.co.uk/Forest-of-Dean/family-history-research.html
devonjim
master brummie
Mike, Just a thought if Cartland Rd. was part of Aston does this also apply to Clifton Rd. Balsall Heath, in which case there were two Clifton Rd in Aston!
I suppose it depends on what you mean by ~Aston. The Balsall Heath area was originally in the Kings Norton Parish, separate from Aston parish. In earlier censuses Clifton Road, Balsall Heath is just described as Worcestershire . In the 1901 census it is listed as Worcestershire, but on the form Worcestershire is crossed out and stamped Birmingham. At no time is Aston mentioned.
1901 census form heading below:
1901 census form heading below:
devonjim
master brummie
A 1914 marriage certificate from St. John's, Sparkhill is in the County of Worcester. So would that have been Yardley?
I thought that Yardley became part of Birmingham in 1911? Perhaps the vicar just wrote in Worcester out of habit?
It seems that the Spark brook/Stoney Lane was the boundary of Yardley so Clifton Rd would have been outside of Yardley. But then I read that in twelfth century Yardley church was a chapelry of Aston.
I thought that Yardley became part of Birmingham in 1911? Perhaps the vicar just wrote in Worcester out of habit?
It seems that the Spark brook/Stoney Lane was the boundary of Yardley so Clifton Rd would have been outside of Yardley. But then I read that in twelfth century Yardley church was a chapelry of Aston.
MWS
from Bham
This map is a little earlier but it shows what must have been the southern boundary between Warwickshire and Worcestershire (Yardley to the east, extending northwards) and also the extent of Aston parish, stretching from Aston itself across east Birmingham.
devonjim
master brummie
devonjim
master brummie
Thanks to you both for looking. Even on formal documents she was known as "Maggie" but I still can't find her on 1939 census. I suppose she may have died after '30 ER and before 39 census.
Interesting to see links with a variety of addresses in area from the marriage certificate, birth certificate, 1911, 1901 census etc. Almost certainly confirms that great grandmother's maiden name was Hatton. I notice another researcher suggest Watkins.
MWS
from Bham
Probably able to narrow down her 'disappearance' with the full ERs but unless she happened to marry and live there for a time it wouldn't be really help.
There's a mention of John Williams' (I think) death in the Bham Mail 1944. Unfortunately it seems to just mention Mrs Williams and family rather than individual names.
There's a mention of John Williams' (I think) death in the Bham Mail 1944. Unfortunately it seems to just mention Mrs Williams and family rather than individual names.
MWS
from Bham
I have a possible candidate.
I think it's been said that ERs can be a year out, so you may be listed for the year after you've left, which could mean that whatever happened to Florence may have happened in 1929.
If so there is a marriage for a Florence M Williams to a Horace Vickers Sep qtr 1929 Bham S.
On the 1939 register there is a Margaret F Vickers with a dob 3 Oct 1896 living on Main St Garforth with a Horace Vickers. It is a year out but it is one of the more common errors.
There is a death registered for Florence Margaret Vickers Mar qtr 1940 Tadcaster (which includes Garforth) aged listed as 44.
A few coincidences if it isn't her.
I think it's been said that ERs can be a year out, so you may be listed for the year after you've left, which could mean that whatever happened to Florence may have happened in 1929.
If so there is a marriage for a Florence M Williams to a Horace Vickers Sep qtr 1929 Bham S.
On the 1939 register there is a Margaret F Vickers with a dob 3 Oct 1896 living on Main St Garforth with a Horace Vickers. It is a year out but it is one of the more common errors.
There is a death registered for Florence Margaret Vickers Mar qtr 1940 Tadcaster (which includes Garforth) aged listed as 44.
A few coincidences if it isn't her.
